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But it is funny too.
Not quite being up to much lately, I have been trying to do more than play a stupid game, watch television, or even just sit and read. Those things have limits to how much time they can effectively eat, in any case. While I am physically capable of sitting and reading all day, my mind likes to take large breaks in which to sort through the exposure. Television is saved for when my brain and body are wanting sleep hard but cannot come by it. And the one game I have gotten to work on this old loaner is... getting quite old (Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project *dance for me baby*).
Today I am looking over the prospect of building my own cabinets. I am quite sure that if not absolutely needed, a table saw would be exceptionally handy. It is something I have checked into but without much in the way of returns. There are the 'big box' table saws, little devices that, if hedged, with additions, and if carefully scrutinized, might do in a pinch. I haven't see any real options though. Perhaps the larger more professional ones are so high priced that if you have to ask, you should have known better? Then again, I am not really seeing those offered anywhere, either. I have seen old ones, being offered online at sites like Craigslist. Nice, but... most of them remind me of buying a model-t, that has sat for a decade or four. Hmm, no. No, I think not.
In any case, I think I have most other tools. I might consider a plane or three. I would probably want a router. While a saw would be fine for, say, just a single solar oven double box construction, I don't think I would really want to work through a dozen cabinets, bases, and drawers, using a hand saw. Just saying. But for the most part, I have a decent grouping to tools. I have a very basic understanding of how to use those tools. I even have safety gear, though I think a triple tap outdoor GFCI adapter might be a great addition.
So, other than everything needed, I still wanted to look at advice regarding construction of cabinets. To be honest I think it would be relatively easy work. The reason most people don't do it is that it takes a lot of time. Now, I am not saying I could just swing and hit, I am saying that I could swing and stumble through the process relatively painlessly, so long as I don't rip the old ones out first and then be pressed by time to get the new ones in (not a chance). I think the other reason people buy prebuilt is that, if far from cheaper, it is easier to get a loan for pre-built installed units than it is to get a loan (or buy over time) the tools and supplies needed. Of course, that is part of the problem with modernism. It has created a specialized status that makes earning or gaining access to debt much preferable to doing things personally. Time has indeed become money, and an engineer or accountant would do far better to do a little overtime or take on an extra account or three than to gather the money, then the tools and skills, and finally build their own cabinets. It is actually, in many areas, seen as... geekish, or "fundamentalist" (on secular grounds, but nonetheless), or foolish. "Let the peasants do that sort of work, George. Your place is up here in the clouds with the rest of us know-everything-do-nothings"!
Yes, I think I could do the work, given the tools. Oh, and there would be mistakes. But, you didn't think those pre-builts were perfect, did you? Beyond, what are built with? Will that "wood" handle getting wet? Really? Will they even handle being installed, or will the installer just do whatever it takes to get it in and... not bother letting you know how fail it is? Honestly, you don't and won't know unless you do it yourself. And it isn't as hard as all that, regardless of what some try to make you think. Or, at least, how about this. It can be complicated, but it isn't hard.
One thing that bothers me is that, on every diy'er site, it seems the notion of using solid hard woods is considered passe. The cheaper types of wood, it is suggested, are used on everything save a few commonly viewed small pieces. Plywood, I am sure, is just fine. But does it really last? What about the other types of wood product? Has hard wood become too expensive to even consider? I hope not, but that may be the truth of it. Of course, I am sure we have saved the spotted owls though, right?
I still have more questions than answers. But I am nearing a place to jump off, if a few more things come together (tools, a little experience with the solar oven construction, and the money for materials and tools). When I first moved here, I didn't have a quarter of the tools I now have, and no power tools save that lame 12 or 14 volt drill. Things are moving along. Even if it feels like at a tortoise's pace. I'll get there, if I live long enough.
I don't know if it is even available new anymore, but I am as pleased as I can be with my Ryobi BT3000 table saw. It is much better than the department store toys, yet not priced completely up in the "pro tools" stratosphere. For my purposes (high-end home handyman/serious DIY'er) it has been the perfect tool.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, if you're considering the (daunting) task of making your own cabinets, you must have a table saw. I mean, yeah, you could get by with a hand saw and a couple of planes, but...
I would not hesitate to use 3/4" plywood for the less visible parts of the cabinet. You can even get plywood with a better quality wood laminate on the outer layer for areas that get some exposure that you want to match to the doors and faces. I agree that only the doors and faces really need to be solid wood. I would never, never consider particle board or pressboard for any purpose however, and with most commercially made cabinets, you're getting particle board somewhere in the construction. Unless you're talking really high end, but those need a high-end house to justify the expense.
Here is a thought: If I were planning a design that called for paint on the cabinets rather than stain/varnish, I would not hesitate to use a good quality plywood throughout. By good quality I mean A-A or A-C finish, and with solid layers throughout, not just the finish layers. That way I could rout the edges to whatever pattern I wanted, then sand, seal and paint them, and have a very nice cabinet for cheap.
I built a set of kitchen cabinets out of solid pine back in my younger years. They looked good and I was reasonably happy with the result, but damn did they take a lot of work.
Just giving you a heads up here...
Maybe build a couple of cabinets for your workshop first, just to get a feel for the scale of the undertaking?
"Time has indeed become money, and an engineer or accountant would do far better to do a little overtime or take on an extra account or three than to gather the money, then the tools and skills, and finally build their own cabinets."
ReplyDeleteUnless you're *this* engineer, in which case it is almost painful for me to pay someone else to do what I could do myself, but for the time and energy.
Which is why my last breath will likely contain the following words: "But I'm not DONE yet, God!"
Now, that's a plan. I would be extremely happy to have some cabinets in the garage, and perhaps one for each outbuilding, for medicines or whatnot for the livestock. Plus, I wouldn't have to worry so much about those beginner's errors. Well, most of them. :)
ReplyDeleteIt is good to hear about the wood. It just seems... cheesy. At least to an old school type. I hadn't really thought of it as being extra work, but then, the only way to have panels is to sand, plane, glue, and hope? Yeah... It makes sense.
I will check on that table saw. If it doesn't exist, sometimes forum users remember "when", and suggest what has replaced it (and why, if still good, it isn't as good). lols But, yeah, we are an unhappy people, regarding change, even if it might be for the real better. More so farmers, diy'ers, computericians, and such... in various ways.
D.C.,
ReplyDeleteYes, but you are a jewel stuck in the mud of life. God will probably put you right to work. I doubt if he would ignore such... tenacity. I just hope that he sees fit to repair me so he can put me to work too. You have a head start, but forever is a long time to try and catch up!
Just checking around a bit, it appears you may stumble upon a used BT3000 or BT3001 for about $200-$300. They don't appear to be made anymore.
ReplyDeleteThere also appears to be a Mac-PC divide out there between people who love them or hate them.
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OTOH, it sounds awfully nice to be heading somewhere that's already perfect in every way and does not need my efforts.
Rest. That's what we're promised. And the older I get, the better it sounds.
I had just been looking myself. I haven't seen any used, yet. But I did look at the newer ones (which seem like all the rest these days). Here is their newest offering, from what I can find.
ReplyDeleteAs for me, I am hoping that, even if everything works right, perfectly, that we can continue to make and do things. I have to think one of the ways we were made in God's image is the aspect that makes us want to create.
These are newer machines that sort of got my attention. The price is a bit steep, but they seem a lot better than the contractor type, and yet are still much cheaper than the pro versions (which are often bolt-ins to boot). While there are used, I worry about parts. The 3000 and 3100 haven't been made in a decade or so and I don't have your experience or knowledge. I couldn't just make something work with something else since I simply don't know how it is supposed to work or what kind of tolerances can be pushed.
ReplyDeleteI have a bunch of larger ticket items on my list, but I have some time, too. Bit by bit. I think I have satisfactorily narrowed the field for table saws though. I think.
It would be hard to go wrong with a genuine contractor-quality table saw, except in the pocketbook department. If that's the direction you want to go, I'd definitely look for a used one to shave at least a couple hundred or more off the price.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm thinking about it. But like I said, much of what I have seen has looked mighty old. Just getting the thing going might take some serious work, and parts that simply might not exist. You can always hobble something together, as I said, assuming you have an idea of how it is even supposed to work. I need something that works now, and I sort of need that warranty. Still, I'll keep my eyes peeled for one that is relatively new but is being sold due to going out of business or health issues. But damn, the scammers are out thicker than mosquitoes. It seems to get worse every day.
ReplyDeleteThink of it this way, how much would such a device save me over buying truly solid cabinetry? And it would help me in many other areas. As you seem to suggest, it is THE tool. Why not make it a crowning tool. There are much more expensive out there, too. These aren't quite industrial. And, a solid hunting rifle and mbr will cost me double that, each.
I have had to decide to go with a bit more quality if it takes a bit more time to get into. For peace of mind. I can't handle projects that require projects within themselves (such as finding parts for, then installing those parts, on a machine that I am not even sure what the problem(s) might be). I simply can't do it. I haven't got the mojo for that much depth. That would drive me beyond distraction. No, not crazy, I would just quit and lose everything I had just spent, get mad enough to just scrap it. I don't have those Scotch-Irish genes, or whoever has those. Indian genes, if you can't fuck it, eat it, or ride on it... piss on it. :p
Are you suggesting that the Scotch-Irish have a knack for projects within projects, nested, interwoven undertakings that never seem to come to a real end, or if they do, only they have the wherewithal to see it through?
ReplyDeleteWell, when you put it that way, hells yes! And I bet, whether you are acting on it or not, you have recipes in your genetic memory for some of the best whiskey every produced too.
ReplyDeleteHmm, is that speciest? Maybe I r prejudiced. Or maybe I'm just suspicious. In some sense, is there a difference? Oh, one thought, if you were working on those recipes, you would be much more prone to "never seem to come to a real end". Being an Indian, a bit, and having crawled into a bottle, if not so much to test my mash, for a bit, this I know.
I must have let it out at some point that I am part Scots-Irish. Or is it just that obvious?
ReplyDeleteI mean I knew I was part Scots-Irish since I was a child, but after your comment I did a tad of research...
That 'splains a lot, it does. I mean rather startlingly. It paints a portrait of a large part of who I am. Half of my heritage is German, and only a quarter Scots-Irish, but it appears to have an outsized influence.
As for the alchoholism, I can thank my Dad for breaking that generational curse. His father was an abusive alcoholic and he swore not to be. So I was spared, and likewise have no particular love of the bottle, except in moderation.
If you've got Indian heritage, yeah, I suppose that's something to be cautious of. Though you seem to be (usually, ahem) in sufficient command of yourself to not let it become a problem.
It couldn't be more obvious than if it was stamped on your forehead. I am not sure you ever did say such, I guess I just always thought you were. I can see German too, I can. It's just usually not as... colorful? yes... colorful as the Scotch-Irish.
ReplyDeleteI think I am pretty good with alcohol. What you have seen written is the worst I have gotten, even in real life. And, to be honest, for about three years, four to six times a month, I drank a case of Bud, a fifth of vodka, and a fifth of Yukon Jack in six to eight hours, usually not having a hangover. I was easily able to quit for engineering school, and because I realized the waste of money, I decided not to go back to it after I quit college. Well, the DWI in '93 (with a bac of .48 or a bit higher) really spooked me.
The name "Yukon Jack" makes me shudder, as the taste is close enough to Southern Comfort to evoke unpleasant memories...
ReplyDeleteI think partly I cured myself of any inclination very early on. I had a friend who put on poker parties where we all committed to staying overnight and not driving, in exchange for a venue where we could drink to our hearts content and lose a few bucks to each other in a friendly contest.
One of these parties I downed a fifth of Southern Comfort, together with a broad mishmash of other liquor and beer over the course of a few hours.
I earned myself a hangover that was still screaming bloody murder at 5 PM the *next* evening.
It took me many years of cautious moderate drinking to *ever* come close to that again. And to this day I have circuit breakers that trip and say "enough" before I get to hangover territory.
Lord knows there's plenty of "color" in the Scots-Irish. Great Grandma was a Scot, an honorable woman and a firebrand through and through. I knew her in her 80's and 90's, and she was migrating with the seasons between Canada, Minnesota and Arizona until cancer finally cut short her peregrinations in her mid-90's.
ReplyDeleteI recall her remodeling the attic in her house in Minnesota in her 80's to provide herself an apartment for the spring and fall portion of her wanderings (she had rented the rest of the house out).
Her daughter by her Irish first husband was every negative stereotype of the heritage you could muster. The reason I don't speak of that final quarter is that we don't really know, if you know what I mean. I believe I borrowed the name but not the genes from Grandpa, and it is likely her next husband, a Swede, is the true source of my last quarter of heritage. This, I surmise, is the source of my occasional Viking temper, and the damnable good looks that my brother (and also my sister) possess. Somehow I got more of the German and Scots appearance genes than either of them.
The only major difference is that Yukon is 100 proof, S.C. is milder flavored and 70 proof. Oh, I still get a hankering for that stuff. But it is only memory. After tasting high end scotch, Yukon tastes like candy (with a Goliath sized punch, albeit).
ReplyDeleteI wish I could have, back then, found such parties. I mostly just drank with my cousin and then fiancee. She was okay with with, and joined a very little bit (a few drinks through the night). But she had problems with hangovers too. I might have saved myself a pretty nickle if I had anything like hangovers. Heck, with that high a bac, they let me drive away after only six hours (they caught me early in the morning and the judge saw me first thing). That last makes me very suspicious of DWI laws, by the way, as there was no way I was sober yet.
Now, in a lesser way, that is my mother. She isn't my birth mother, but she put hellfire and brimstone into me with her work attitude. My problem, probably, has simply been a bad heart for most of my life. But I have that temperament. When I was younger, until it all failed, I worked like a demon too. I did meet my birth mother, and stayed a couple of weeks. I know where I get the crazy from, but more crazy like a fox (at least on her part). She'll make you think she's a yokel dolt and turn around and mess your head up. And she did it for fun, though I think I spanked her a time or two as well. She was definitely better. And a little spitFIRE. She is Spaniard and Navajo. I didn't meet my birth father, but he is or was a lawyer and French Lakota.
Both my father and mother had fathers and grandfathers that were 6'2", and my father is 6'2". (I met my half brother, from when my mother (5'2" max) was married to a man. Problem is, by half brother looked like me, at 6'2" (a little shorter and a LOT skinnier, gay at that). I think she hooked back up with the lawyer, my birth father, for him. As her husband was 5'4", max, and quite anglo, say... the smaller of the Irish type stock. Hmm, that just came to me.
I'm such a weird mix that people aren't sure what the hell. But many are sure they know me, or knew me at one time. I don't know if that is good or bad. My "brother" (also adopted) looked like a mix too. But I think he is more just Mexican and Caucasian of some sort, if I heard rightly. (the other 38 foster, step, adopted, half brothers and sisters, I have no clue).