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This first video is exactly what I have been looking for. It doesn't have all of the details, though the 'author' of the video does sell a book (at only $7 I believe) filling out the details. Oh, right, this video concerns solar power. I think this is pretty much along the lines of what D.C. has been discussing, albeit with an inverter for a/c from d/c. I can see D.C.'s point, but I know I want to split at least some of the d/c off into a/c for various tidbits where d/c applications aren't possible or might end up being a bit spendy, up front, on top of the system itself. Am I blathering ag... never mind. On with the show.
This next is where I have been zoomed. *shrug* Then again, I really have doubts about whether I could afford to set up such a homesteading operation. He makes it seem easy, but building a well functioning, well insulated, solid structure is not as easy as it sounds. My guess is, one way or another, he has access to a lot of tools and equipment that most of us do not. You CAN drill your own well, if the depth is quite minimal. I'd love to see someone try to hand drill their own 400 or 800 foot well. And, of course, that assumes water rights. Oh, I could go on, but the idea IS there. And while I doubt the monetary reality, I don't doubt even I could somehow do such a thing at four to five times what he discusses in costs. I am not sure I am healthy enough to do so, though. Still, this is cool. Oh, and he is a Utah man.
I give him 10k points for pluck. And I do profess to having just a touch of jealousy, if my jealousy tends to be on the better side of that trait so I certainly don't begrudge. And, I can't say it doesn't make me think. No, no, I'm not just going to walk away from my home. I do like it, and what I have. Sure, I could (I think, legally and freely, if not morally). It's just not my style. However, I could do some upgrades and try to sell... in time. If I did it just right and got a bit lucky, I could make enough off the sale for a grubstake, or at least in theory. Utah homes, at my level and up to about $250k are rather stable and selling well, or last I heard/saw (roughly, possibly, maybe). One of the benefits of a V.A. loan is that the home can be sold before it is paid off at the interest rate of the original purchase. So if rates go up, I have a plug, if only to other veterans. Hmm, then again, I love my stone house. That would be really hard to beat, and a bear to build. Anyway... Just thought I'd pass these on. Some of you might enjoy.
I believe I linked to this guy's website a while back. He makes me feel like an extravagant fool. Really if I weren't panicking about the time left four years ago, I would have probably done something like this rather than pulling the mobile home onto the lot.
ReplyDeleteHis solar system is smaller than mine and I'm already laying plans to expand my system to its full design capacity. But with under 400 s.f. I can see how his total electric needs will be smaller. I'm just gearing up to a higher level of off-grid comfort come retirement (if TS doesn't HTF in the mean time).
Re: AC power from solar, recall that I do have an inverter, 3500 watts. It's just the longer I think about things and how to do them, the less I think I will be running stuff off the inverter versus direct off the 24 volt battery bank. Efficiency and all that I previously went into.
I don't recommend the deep cycle batteries that first video recommends. Paying a tad more for a true solar storage battery (lead-acid) is worth the difference, and if you save your pennies, the NiFe batteries available elsewhere are even better from a long term reliability perspective.
ReplyDeleteNorthern Wind and Sun has the better lead-acid batteries. They also carry the Xantrex line of charge controllers and inverters, but I had a Northern sales rep steer me away from Xantrex due to QC and reliability issues.
Wow that's pretty cool how he's living out there all by himself. I don't see myself doing that sort of thing, but i do want to be as free from bills and payments as possible.
ReplyDeleteIt's good in a way because it teaches you some survivalist skills. At some point i plan to start a small garden of my own, growing at least some of my own food is something i want to do. I haven't got the space to raise chickens and such but i can grow at least some food on the little land i have.
i also want to look into this solar thing, we pay far too much for electricity thanks to the commie scum in charge of our country, but i can't mount stuff on my roof, i need to find some portable panels that i can charge up or something. Anything to reduce the current bills is welcome.
D.C.,
ReplyDeleteYeah, I wasn't planning on following his technical steps, only noting that his notion of something small, now, would definitely be better than something big planned for later, possibly never. Which, of course, is quite similar to your notions.
Action is the keyword. But between finances and health, I am stuck. A guy can dream though. And, some of it could happen, but not quickly. First I have food to sort out and prepare for storage. Then I need to get guns and ammo arranged. Then I can begin that next step.
As for batteries, there are two types I keep looking at. The gel and even a newer form, I think it is fiberglass or such. Although, from what I have seen, those may be extremely far out of my price range, even a single one. If I am seeing right, they are about 1k per. Zounds! Wouch!
MK,
My electric is 'reasonable' here, but more reasonable is better on a month to month basis too. Though I am not sure about recouping costs through solar. At this point, here anyway, I will be jumping (cost wise) from the pan into the fire. I only want to consider solar for grid-down scenarios. I could see, however, where Zero, through abstract policies such as his war on coal and nuclear power, that our electric prices might begin to make solar pay off up front and easily.
As for not putting things on the roof, do you have enough room for poles, to pole mount? I am considering using pole mounts myself, though for me, because of the distance, I might have to up-size my voltage to 48v. Then again, I am running around like a planner with no tools, money, time, or energy, just trying to not nail my foot to the ground with definite plans until I am closer to any possible implementation.
Buggers but it's a frustrating world sometimes.
The batteries I currently have are AGM (absorbed gel mat, or some such...) I think the pair was around $1k total, IIRC. I got them precisely because of their alleged longer lifespan, but that was before I discovered NiFe. If I upgrade to nickel-iron, these two batteries will go to a smaller setup on Momcat's house.
ReplyDeleteHer solar greenhouse is a really exciting development to me. Because with that plus no more than a 100 watt panel to run a pair of circulation fans, she can have gobs of free heat every crisp winter morning. The same panel plus fans can operate an evaporative cooler in the hot months for free. Plus the battery bank will give her free lighting in the evening and power to run the satellite modem and router that resides in her den. If I see to it that her next computer is a laptop, then that can run on the batteries also.
A not insignificant side benefit is the wintertime salad greens that will come out of there.
MK, if you can find a ground level spot that is sunny for at least the middle six hours of the day, that could potentially work for you for solar panels.
People may excoriate me for being a worrier, but the more I get done, the less I worry. I can see some light at the end of the tunnel, up there maybe a few years ahead...if the world will hang onto itself just a little longer...
Of course in the mean time I will continue to brainstorm up new ways to consume my time and resources, 'til death do me part.
Yes, right, ni-fe batteries. I simply didn't recall off hand. My deal is, if I go with a rather smallish system, I would do fine. Here is a ni-fe battery price list (in with a bunch of other stuff regarding ni-fe batteries). What is the AH (amp hour) of your system, by the way, to sort of wrap my head around things? Anyway, the smallest 48v system battery starts north of $4k. The system I (think) I would like is slightly north of $12k. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteI can base a 12v system off of panels on my roof. The thing is I will not be able to upgrade that system easily. To add more than, say, six panels, I would need pole mounted panels. Those panels would most likely be too distant for a 12v or even 24v system, due to where the sun shine hits open ground being rather distant, which would require a 48v system. Unless of course I wanted to plaster panels around my front lawn (not going to happen, save perhaps one, in time, for a water heater).
All fantasy, at the moment. But reality is often based on fantasy of some sort. You don't think your 'communicator' just materialized from phone companies wanting to bring you better product... without ever having watched Star Trek, do you? heh
Beam me up Scotty! Or, just Beam me. A spot, neat, on the rocks perhaps? :p
With a MPPT charge controller you can have a much higher voltage input than your battery bank voltage. You could in theory set up a 48 volt panel array and run that output through a MPPT into a 24 volt battery bank. This would be something you could discuss with a consultant at Northern Wind and Sun if you ever get to the point of making a purchase.
ReplyDeleteOne thing to be aware of regarding ni-fe batteries is that they require a much higher charge rate than lead acid batteries. C/5 is the oft-quoted rate for ni-fe, where C is the capacity of the battery bank in amp-hours (lead acid are supposed to require more like C/10).
I am probably looking at a 24 volt bank based upon the 7011 cell, or just over $5k. At full build-out (1600 watts) my panel array ought to be able to pump around 65 amps at high noon. Times five gives me 325, which is the maximum ni-fe bank (in amp-hours) this array could effectively charge. So the 7011 is a decent match (allowing for lower charge rates in the morning and afternoon, and on partly cloudy days).
This will take me a rather long time to save up for, and I will be upgrading the panels before the batteries, but once installed I am set for life.
My current lead acid AGM batteries are supposed to be 210 AH (IIRC), which is ok for my current 400 watt array, but you can't ever use all 210 AH from a lead acid bank without damaging the batteries (no more than 50% max drawdown). You can drain ni-fe dry without damage, so you actually get quite a bit more storage for a given amp-hour rating with ni-fe.
Oh, right, I forgot about that mppt property, and yeah I sort of knew. That could, at least, kick the battery tier down one, which would halve the cost! Yeah, there is that. As for the increased need for juice to feed the batteries, here is where being grid-tied might be beneficial. At least until I could, over time, fill that void more completely, more surely, with more panels. There is always the EMP (among other) tied problems. But a quick disconnect, perhaps even one that breaks before a problem occurs, might work. I know I will only go grid-tied if I have an absolute, simple, mechanical means of breaking the tie.
ReplyDeleteAs for an automated tie-break, I have to think that a sensor could be put further along the line, where the power comes in. Not only that, building a minor... hold-off/power-delay into the system. If the sensor finds a problem, it would automatically trip the connection before the 'trash' gets through to the rest of the system. Of course, I am making all of that up. I don't know if such a thing exists, how to implement it, or such. But... I do think it's possible and wouldn't be all that much trouble.
Nothing is fast enough to break an EMP pulse. Not a blasted thing. That is what makes them so dangerous. They have an extremely fast rise rate. If there is any warning whatsoever of an impending conflict, it would be prudent to break the connection in advance.
ReplyDeleteI know we've discussed it before, but given your limited means, putting together a completely off-grid separate 12v or 24v system for minimal electricity needs would make more sense. Like that video--a 100 watt panel, small charge controller and inverter and a decent, if low-ish capacity battery would allow you to run a laptop computer and internet connection for parts of the day, and some lights and a shortwave radio for the evening hours, plus a means to charge battery powered implements if you get a charger that runs on 12v input. No worries about NEC compliance, no worries about expensive installation or inspectors nosing about. Just build it as a stand-alone backup power source that you plug stuff into as needed.
You could probably put together some such for a few hundred dollars. I might actually be interested in fiddling around with components at Northern AZ Wind and Sun to come up with some possible configurations.
Arright, lessee here, you get this:
ReplyDeletesolar panel for $323,
and this: charge controller for $215
and this AGM battery for $359,
and perhaps this sine wave inverter as a starting point for $241, plus wires and miscellaneous hardware and you've got a SHTF minimal electric system for under $1100. Plus it can cut your electric bill a little bit in the mean time.
Okay, here is the deal. What could I get for $4k, minus the battery (along with a battery priced up to $4k itself)? (Or, more simply put, what could I get for $8k with ni-fe battery of the right size?) That is the actual amount I am considering. Of course, and understand, I do want grid-tie compatible components. I might go off-grid initially, or not, depending on money and attitude as I dig more. I know what you like, and Rawley, but I... have my own notions too, you know, and reasons for them. (I am extremely dubious about an emp attack, one way or the other, for one thing, as I believe any such attack with be very small and very localized and will be targeted at mass populations. Being that there are more people in most major cities then there are in this and surrounding states, my numbers say bunk to emp here). I could easily disconnect the grid-tie while I sleep, just because that would be the most likely attack time AND, that is the time I would not be making energy with the system anyway, among many other logical reasons).
ReplyDeleteI thought about dropping more of a dime into the thing, but I don't want to have to try and trickle through (or depend upon) a government (state or federal) rebate. Anything I got back would just be put to other uses, or enlarging the system a bit, continually, until diminishing returns ended up with me, a 12-pack, and a happy day/rough morning. :p So, $8k would be max, and it is a real prospect, with only time and me getting off my butt to get the money in holding the project up. I will probably end up with at least $4k more, but I have other designs for that.
$8k and you could have what I have now except subbing out the ni-fe batteries. That is to say, a 400+ watt array, 3500 watt single phase (120v) inverter and a MPPT charge controller with room to expand in the future. I think you can get the grid-tie plus battery backup version of the Outback inverter for not much more than I paid for my battery-only inverter. Assuming you install yourself. If you have pro installation, figure the batteries won't fit in that budget, and maybe not the charge controller. If you want grid-tie only initially (plus pro install) that might easily fit that budget, but you want to make provision for the batteries and charge controller to be easily added later, meaning the correct inverter plus the panel connections for future batteries and charge controller. You can get design assistance from Northern AZ W&S for the specifics, or I can help you with some of the details if you get serious about it.
ReplyDeleteIt's not about "serious", it's more about able. However, two of my tasks this week are regarding the financing. When those are completed, to fruition, I will be "serious". One will take a lawyer and the courts, one involves the government, so speed is not something I can arrange. I can only do my part. And I haven't been up to doing my part because of health, knowing following up would be too difficult if needed. Health isn't better, but it is sort of now or never. I will, however, do my part this week.
ReplyDeleteWell yes, that is what I meant. "Serious" is when "able" is present.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing I don't have any good info on is the professional installation cost. It may be safe to figure at least 50% to 75% of the material cost, maybe as much as 100%. The good news though is doing a pro install may make your installation eligible for a power company rebate. Those are often subject to funds availability though. Federal credits are OK with home handyman installs, and maybe your state is the same--AZ was.
ReplyDelete