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I just noticed this at SurvivalBlog. This guy seems to have a plan. Actually, this is his plan. No, seriously, that is a well laid out plan, allowing for a good deal of what is needed and some of what would be very wanted in a grid down situation, and for a rather lengthy period of time. I am not exactly sure how long the propane would last him, but if he used that just for ac in the summer, I am guessing it would last for years.
But I noticed nothing about money, cost, or such. My guess? $30k to $60k, when you add in panels, connections, generator, batteries, and all the rest, and not including installation. If he did it himself, while technically free any diy'er knows it is not free. The price is serious time, effort, and an temporary abrogation to many other aspects of life.
Worthwhile? Only if it is ever needed as designed. While a solid possibility, and not just for a complete grid down situation (imagine if Obama gets even part of his way in shutting down coal fired electric plants, and just that alone, prices will soar!). And, it doesn't even have to be an international or even national collapse. A hurricane, tornado, massive electrical storm, regional grid failure, or a thousand other things could do that. I guess it would be worth it even if nothing happened, simply through peace of mind. And, of course, you would be saving some money on utilities as a standing functional system, making some of your money back. Given that this man's bills were $240 in the winter and $400 in the summer (though, it sounds like he lives... rather well), he would of course never regain his expenditures (like I said, with the exception that the grid goes down).
I honestly wish people would include costs. While it is nice to hear that someone has found his way to doing this, it is impossible to consider the feasibility factor without some kind of pricing. He indicates he has an engineering degree and a Ph. D. from one of the Ivy League schools, or top ten as he puts it. Well, okay, but he still has to look at the price tags, doesn't he?
Anyway, that looks like a solid system. I think the only think I would do differently, money not being an issue, is get a much larger propane tank. I think they go to 2k, rather than 300 gallons. You can hook up your stove, a clothes dryer, and a few other things, as well as make sure (as he seems to do?) have a tap so you can fill smaller tanks. A home would never use 2k. That would last as long as a single homeowner would live, almost, and offer some minor barter as well. It may not be legal, where he lives however, to have such a large quantity of propane. I am wondering if that was his situation, since he seems pretty able to do pretty much what he wants financially.
He even takes care of most maintenance issues by using the better batteries. I have always wondered if, after creating a battery panel, if you could purchase back-up batteries and store them? That seems to me to be an excellent idea, assuming batteries have a shelf life significantly longer than battery use life. Something I will be investigating (though too, I know those batteries are a significant expense). I know, if money was available and I had such as system, if nothing else and I saw the SH'ingTF, I would try to get a second round of batteries as a last thing. The card(s) get maxed? And?
Just... thinking.
Probably nowhere near that amount.
ReplyDeleteThe core of my system is sized to put out 3500 watts of 120 volt AC. It is sized to accept up to 1600 watts of solar input. To fully upsize to this capacity, I would need to quadruple the panels and quadruple the battery bank. This would add an additional $6000 to the installation, which cost me around $6000 to start with. So for $12,000 I'd have a roughly comparable solar setup.
Because I don't live in Florida, AC is nice but not vital. My evaporative cooling setup will cover me for all but July and August, and even then it will be tolerable, if not comfortable.
On the refrigerator/freezer front, I have found a source for high-efficiency 12 volt chest fridge and freezers. One of each will take a fraction of the output he requires, and should be quite adequate for the long-term necessities. Slated to buy when funds are available...
So the generator is an unnecessary expense from my standpoint. It is an expensive luxury that only buys a few days (or maybe a couple weeks with a bigger tank) of additional power until it goes dead for the duration of the emergency. Add that in if you must for another $2-3k, for a total system cost of somewhere around $15k.
Oh, regarding the batteries, I wish I had heard of nickel-iron batteries before I bought the AGM batteries I have installed. NOTHING says "prepared for the long term" like a nickel iron installation. Virtually immortal--they only require an electrolyte change every 30 years or so--and can be discharged to zero without damage, so you don't need to oversize the bank to minimize the lifecycle effects of deep discharging as per lead-acid batteries.
ReplyDeleteThe downside is that they cost substantially more and are only made in China and imported by one company. They were invented here and used to be made here back when "yankee ingenuity" meant something. There are installations still in service 70 years later.
If I get to where I can afford to upgrade my system, number one on the list will be saving up for a set of these batteries. And maybe a few carboys of replacement electrolyte carefully stored away for decades down the road.
Re gas, my mother and I each have a 250 gallon tank. She uses a bit more than I due to her being there all of the time, but with 2-3 fills per year at about 125 gallons each, that's maybe 350 gallons per year. A 2000 gallon tank would only yield about a 5 years' supply. That's for one frugal woman, not a full household.
ReplyDeleteA small generator, consuming about 5 gallons a day would drain such a tank dry in a little over a year.
Okay, that price, even at the $6k-$15k, is doable, over time. Perhaps. Now, I am guessing, for me, installation would be required by someone else, which probably at least doubles that (some of which would be cared for by federal and state money earmarked for conservation). I'm doing good to do the dishes and take out the trash, to be perfectly honest. No rub on me, it's just the way of it unless something changes.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I was blathering when I said a 2k jug of the stuff would last forever. True enough. Though I think my use for it would last longer than a couple of weeks, too. I wouldn't be, in a crisis, using it for cooking (other than occasional grilling) or almost anything other than for the generator. And I wouldn't be using the generator more than three or four hours a day, on the days I decided to use a room ac. So, for me, the stuff would last a much longer time. (I probably wouldn't hook it up for home heating, just the stove and a dryer, unless I went duel fuel furnace, which would usually be on gas, plumbed for both, as an emergency backup should wood be an issue for a short bit). And, I could probably cut costs by renting the tank (as if the world collapses, I doubt if people who are just trying to survive are going to go out and try and pull their rented (buried) tanks. :p
As for those batteries, that amazes me. I still think having a few in storage, for the improbable, would be good, along with the carboys. Right now, obviously, it is a bit of a pipedream, but... isn't that sort of the way of prepping? marriage? shooting and hunting? life? Yeah, I think so. Even faith is a bit of a pipedream in that we are called to do what we can't do, given Christ who has taken care of our failure, and yet still called to perfection. If you look at it rightly, it isn't exactly about absolute success, it is more a direction. Where are you going? If you get there, where next, and how?